Finding Groups (WoW Style)

[Syllestrae]

Bou and I were having some discussion about finding groups back in the officer section and XO asked me to re-post it here, so here ya go

Our WoW guild is small and probably averages only 2 people online (4 at most) so that means almost always that if we want to do something which requires a group (like running an instanced dungeon), we have to look outside the guild for it.

The first thing I do is check the LFG tool at the bottom (looks like a reptilian eyeball).  I choose "Looking for more" instead of "Looking for group" because LFM lets you see what groups are trying to form and who's in them.  There are usually 2 or 3 instances which are appropriate for your character, so I try to be flexible and search the queues on each of them (in case a group is almost full for one of them).

If there's no group available, it's time to put one together.  So... who to bring?

My ideal group is usually this:

1 Warrior (tank)
1 Paladin (backup tank / backup healer)
1 Hunter (backup tank, pulling, DPS)
1 Priest (healer)
1 Warlock (DPS, wipe protection)

Other classes are fine.  It's just that anyone from the above classes, regardless of talent choices, can do the role I have listed.  A druid *can* fill the role of healer, but only if they have certain talents / gear.  When dealing with a group full of strangers it's thus easier for me to try for classes where their talent choices aren't as important a factor to their role.

The group above is not the fastest way to run an instance, but it has a LOT of safeguards, and when you're dealing with strangers who don't have a good rythm, safeguards are important

Okay, so how to find these people?

I start by checking my friends list.  As I group with strangers, if I find people who do their jobs decently, I add them to my friends list.  It's nice to know going into a dungeon that you have people for sure that you can depend on.  Likewise, if they've had a good experience with you, they're more likely to join.

Beyond that, it's time to start trolling the /who list.  I'll do something like "/who warrior 40-42" which will give me a list of all alliance warriors online in that level range.   My first preference are people hunting in the same zone where the instance is located (because they're probably interested to go).  Second preference are people milling around in cities.  Third preference are people hunting in other zones.  I don't bother asking people who are already in an instanced dungeon or in the middle of a battleground.

I always send a /tell and wait for a response before doing the /invite.  Blindly /inviting people is considered rude.

Most people will either say no (because they're busy) or won't answer at all (because they're AFK).  So rather than wait for a response, I immediately move on to the next person.  Ie:

/tell player A: Hello, we're going to run Zul'Farrak, do you want to come with us?
/tell player B: Hello, we're going to run Zul'Farrak, do you want to come with us?
etc.

On the off-chance that two or more people respond "Yes!", then I just apologize to the extras and inform them that the leader just filled the spot but I'll give them a holler if we run it again.  No one ever minds because they haven't invested anything at that point :p

Once you have your group assembled, you can just get 2 people to the dungeon entrance and use the meeting stone to summon everyone else.

Do make sure to ask the warrior to bring a shield.  "Fury" spec warriors are popular.  It's a high DPS warrior build that's good in PvP.  A lot of them don't invest in a shield, and without a shield they tank like crap.  If they don't own a shield, ask them to buy one real fast.  If they refuse to buy one, find a different warrior (unless you're okay with the warrior being a DPS role and not tanking at all).

Doing the above, it usually takes about 5-15 minutes to get a group together, and another 5-10 minutes before people are at the instance ready to go (people will need to sell, repair, buy food, etc).

I always make sure to re-iterate that people should only hit "need" when rolling for items if they CAN and WILL wear it themself.  It seems obvious, but you'd be surprised

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That takes care of assembling the group.  But there's one consideration left... what if it's a bad group?

Warriors who don't own a shield... priests who rely too heavily on criticals for heals and let everyone get low on health and die... warlocks who keep breaking crowd control with their DoTs, etc.  There are plenty of really bad players out there who only know how to fight solo and not in a group.

You'll know pretty early on if you've got this problem.  The monsters at the start of the dungeon are easier than the ones later on.  If you're having a lot of trouble with the early stuff, you've got a problem.

You first need to figure out if the whole group is bad, or if one person is bad.

The whole group can be bad if everyone is poorly skilled and not listening, or if everyone is too low level for the content of the instance (this happens in Deadmines a lot).

I just thank everyone for coming, let them know it's not working (usually they agree), and offer to run it again in a couple of levels.  Then I excuse myself.

More often though, it's just 1 person.  You have to figure out if they're intentionally being stupid, or accidentally.  If it's by accident (ie: just lack of experience), kindly coach them about what they can do better.  If you use tells instead of group chat it'll be less confrontational too.

You also run into people who are downright arrogant and refuse to follow the group's plan and instead consistently just do whatever they want (fight monsters you have crowd controlled, pull when you're not ready, etc).  I give these people a clearly worded warning, and if they still continue I remove them from the group.  The instance will spit them out after 1 minute ungrouped so there's no risk of them harassing you / stealing your kills.  They're then placed on my /ignore list so I don't accidentally hunt with them again.

All of this might sound a little harsh compared to our usual laid back selves, but everyone's playing to have fun and there is nothing less fun than spending hours on end slogging poorly through some dungeon only to be completely unable to even finish it because the group keeps wiping.

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Lastly, I'll offer a few tips on having a successful run.

1) Raid Markers, Raid Markers, Raid markers.  The group leader can put little markers over monster's head.  The skull is the only one you need.  Stick it over the head of the monster where you want everyone to focus their attacks.  It works best if you make your puller also the group leader for this purpose.

2) Crowd control: Crowd control doesn't just mean polymorph.  EVERYONE can do crowd control.  All it really means is keeping the monsters off the priest, and keeping them either incapacitated or attacking someone with good armor.  Use whatever means are at your disposal to achieve this purpose.

Hunters can use ice traps (to freeze monsters), distracting shot (to pull monsters off the priest), use their pet (to pull monsters off the priest), disengage (to return aggro back to the group's tank), feign death (to return aggro back to the group's tank), etc.

When using attacks to gain aggro for crowd control purposes (backup tanking), ONLY attack as much as is needed to get the monster focused on you.  Then return to fighting whatever monster has the skull over it's head.  Fights run much faster and better when you're ganging up on individual monsters then spreading all the damage around.

3) Aggro management: This is especially important for cloth classes.  You're much better off doing smaller mana efficient heals / damage than big honking huge spells.  As an example, if you're a priest, and using renew as much as possible, your aggro is building slowly over time.  If a monster gets mad at you it's VERY easy to get it mad at us again.  One ping with a distracting shot will bring it back.

If you're healing with greater heals and casting multiple greater heals at once (because you're trying to maximize your mana efficiency w/ 5 second rule) then not only are you going to suddenly pick up a HUGE chunk of aggro, you'll pick it up from multiple monsters at once which makes it really difficult to get them all off you.

4) Don't run!  If something's attacking you and you're wounded or in cloth or whatever, ask for help but stand still.  When you're running it's hard to target whatever's chasing you.

5) Snare those runners!  If you have a snaring attack, be ready to use it on monsters that flee at low health (most humanoids).  This means that if you're a warrior, even if you're tanking, battle stance is best except against bosses because you can hamstring while in battle stance.  Save your defensive stance for the big guys.

6) Watch the AoE: There's a time and place for AoE attacks, and it's not "every time there's 3+ monsters"   It's very possible, using AoE, to break everyone's crowd control and to crank out ridiculous amounts of aggro.  In a group, the best time for it is when fighting groups of NON-elites, and when everyone is aware in advance that you're going to do it so that they can likewise use AoE attacks, and so the priest can use power word shield instead of heals (since many AoE attacks are channeled and easily interrupted).

I know all of the above strays from our usual RP focus, but at the end of the day all of us like to get out there and adventure too, and going into it with some strategy can mean the difference between having a blast and having a terrible time.

- Syll

[PinkRose]

Nice write-up, Syll.

[Jezerai]

Very nice!  A lot of this holds true for EQ2 and Vanguard as well, although the specific classes and class abilities vary.  I use much the same procedure when looking for a group. 

A couple of other things I do.  I leave on all the chat channels for any age range toon I have at my level or lower.  That way I can see what people are looking for.  With nine alts of various classes and seasons, I usually have a toon for any group need.  Also if they are forming a raid or a group for something one of my toons needs, I can find out about it and go.

If I need a specific target, I take my toon and go take a peek at the likely gathering places.  Often I find a group there after the same target and many times there is one or more spots open.  If I am in a group and see a hopeful person or small group of the right age range in my vicinity, I ask if they are after the same monsters my group is after.  If so, I  suggest we join forces rather than compete.  That usually works well.

While I run into alot of lemons doing this, I also have had many fun and productive afternoons this way.  Like Syl, if there are people that I run into that I like or that worked well, I put them on my friends list.  I am much less effective in getting rid of bad apples though.  Usually if it is that bad I think of a polite reason to leave, and leave.

The only caveat to the above is that I am usually reluctant to join pick up groups where my toon is expected to be the main tank.  It never ceases to amaze me how many folk think that s/he is suited to play this role or find it amusing to steal aggro from the tank.   It is endlessly frustrating to have to fight tooth and nail to hold aggro from yahoots who take it, either through careless use of damage dealing spells, hitting the mob before I can get sufficient taunts off, failing to assist me and selecting their own targets when their are multiple monsters, or using aggro generating buffs or abilities.  Anymore, I figure if they want to tank it and think they can, I let them.   Playing healer in an unknown group is frustrating for the same reasons, but from the other end.  Constantly ping ponging heals among 3 or 4 "tanks" is equally frustrating.  Playing dps is much funner in that I don't have to worry about anything but my own toon's damage and being a good group member myself.  One caveat to this is groups where you don't have a traditional tank.  The strategy there IS to ping pong aggro to keep any one person from going down and that is fine.

One other nice thing about having a variety of alts in a variety of classes, I get to see things from different perspectives.  I know what a pain it is to tank, to heal, or to be a wizard in a group.  Nothing like walking a mile in the other persons shoes to understand what problems they are up against!  Anyway, those were my thoughts expressed in officer channel and reiterated here for what they are worth.

[Peri]

I have always had alot more fun with non ideal groups.

Karnor's Castle with 5 rangers and a warrior (eq1)

A balanced group, but with a shadow priest who refuses to heal (WoW)

Lots of times with my shaman as Both tank and healer (WoW)

Three monks! (eq2)

tons more that don't come to mind at the moment.

[Jezerai]

Aye.  I likes them odd groups too.  My favorite was a wizzie, warlock, and two healers in Crushbone Keep.  Talk about bouncing aggro!

[Wroethgar]

hehe. 3 monks, the half asses healing, disposable tanking, total lack of agression control group...


..  and we kicked ass ..

[Draci]

I have become master of the tag-along in WoW...I just turn general chat on, and wait for someone to announc ethey are getting a group together.

With an 'I'm In' ....done.

Really inforamative, Oksana. You are great at just putting together a group.

[Alwynn]

If this was supposed to be funny it was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long.

[Syllestrae]

Yeah, that's the other alternative.  If you play something like a priest, sometimes the difficult thing is to avoid requests for groups :p

[Draci]

i do forget i am a priest sometimes...the superstar of pick-up groups