Final Review - DCUO

[Vilidius]

Okay, one more topic.  With less than two weeks before the game launches, I wanted to give a final review on DCUO for anyone still thinking about buying the game.  If this is only of interest to Scrib, Namae and myself I can certainly avoid posting in the future.  But if anyone else is thinking about it feel free to chime in.

CORE COMBAT - The game is fun and fast.  And smooth, considering how pretty it is.  Apparently this is the first MMO based on the Unreal engine?  That doesn't mean a lot to me, but it's a MMO that feels and plays like an arcade game and that's pretty cool.

TWITCH FACTOR - This isn't a FPS but is also isn't your EQ paced combat either.  Well ... I'm used to playing EQ as a quarterback caster (enchanter).  If you are used to something similar I don't think this is a big stretch.  If you can quad kite in EQ you can easily handle this.  I'd locate the twitch factor somewhere between traditionally paced MMOs and true shooter games.  Maybe somewhere in the range of Diablo style.  Not to say gameplay is similar, just that playing effectively requires similar reaction times.  Put it this way.  I suck at first person shooters and I do really well in DCUO, mainly as a ranged fighter.  That should be some clue.

CONSOLE ELEMENT - The UI is designed for console gaming and that implies some limitations.  The social panel especially is really gimped up right now.  That said, it's at least well designed for console gaming, unlike the train wreck that was FFXIV.  Still, might be a turn off for some.

CONTENT - There's just six power sets at launch and enough game content to have some fun with but people may find that it runs out.  I'd rate it average as a launch MMO, maybe a bit below.  What's there is fun, it just needs more.  Common problem I guess.

END GAME - My view is limited here, maybe Namae can chime in.  The game is designed to be played at level cap.  For me this is unusual.  I'm used to the idea that games end up here but DCUO seems designed with this in mind.  Making level 30 won't take long.  Then there's what I call AA - or feats to get more skill points.  But the difference isn't vast.  The long term playability of this game will depend on how interesting they can make level 30 and how much there is to do, but I haven't seen it all yet.

TIME INVESTMENT - Most things in game can be accomplished in 30-45 minute chunks of time.  Very reasonable for a casual MMO.  At the same time, there are enough significant goals that I feel the game has scope too.  Good balancing here.

PvE - Content is fun as far as it goes.  There are four "roles" in the game determined by powerset.  They are DPS, Tank, Control, Healer.  The one thing I think DCUO does very very very right is that they've given everyone two different "stances."  You can be either DPS or your specialized role - tank, control, healer.  That means that everyone can solo roughly equally well and it means that you have an option to always be DPS in a group - which as we all know is what you add when you have everything else you need.  This is BRILLIANT and my hat is off to them for this innovation.  Otherwise, the mix is relatively MMO standard.  Note that many players are whining their heads off about this because DCUO promised them something different, but frankly I'm glad they stuck with what works and the MMO standard is the MMO standard for a damn good reason, IMHO.

PvP - This, for me, is the shocker.  And the main reason I'm posting here.  I like PvP in DCUO.  I'm playing almost exclusively on the PvP server now.  And unless there's a Saga influx that just insists on PvE, that's probably where I'll be permanently.  Here's what works.  In open world there is some minor griefing but the consequences are very short lived and you can quickly get back into things.  If someone is interfering with your mission goals that sucks, but you can always do something else.  Travel powers make you move fast enough that you don't really need to encounter people if you don't want to and they can't easily catch you unless you stand still or are working on something in a defined area.  I've very rarely been ganked in open world PvP.

Even if you play PvE, some of the later game goals do require PvP, though in controlled circumstances.  The game has "training" arenas, simulations, etc.  The in-game explanation for this is effective.  You are learning in a programmed environment.  Sometimes you even play as other characters.  Of course, you are actually playing against members of the other side (villains and heroes) but officially they are simulations.  Anyway, it's fun.  And the playing field is in most senses nominally level.

You know PvP play is skill based when a level 10 character can knock out a level 20 on skill alone.  I'm actually quite amazed that they've made skill matter so much it can overcome a major level gap while levels still do matter in PvE.  The balancing is very good in this sense.

Oh!  And I'll say this also.  PvE play is designed well enough that it's valid practice and will make you better at PvP.  That's also saying something.

SUMMARY - I'm having fun and I'll certainly buy the game.  I don't know if it has what it takes to be my full-time MMO.  It might be a sideline.  But while the content lasts the gameplay is a lot of fun.  In fairness, so much of the "end game" content revolves around PvP that I can't recommend the game to anyone who simply despises PvP.  I strongly suspect the game will get old quickly at that rate.  But I'd also suggest that anyone who has even minimal interest in PvP might find the game surprisingly fun for it.  And if you think you just aren't good at PvP ... trust me, you're probably a lot better than you suspect.

Speaking to y'all as an older gamer for a moment, some of these kids really suck.  You guys don't know how good you are at this stuff.  Practice does make perfect, and we've been practicing this for a while now haven't we?  Don't worry about the skill side of things, anyway.  =)

Cheers.

[Scrib]

That's a great write-up, Val. Thanks.

I'm probably in this group: "And if you think you just aren't good at PvP".
I did enjoy playing battlegrounds in EQ2 the few times I tried it.

[Titia]

Apparently this is the first MMO based on the Unreal engine

Side comment: VG was based on the Unreal 2 (or 3 I can't recall) engine but usually engines get so much customization between games that only limitations remain (for VG it was the zoning effect due to map size limits in the original engine).

Somehow I'm not all that thrilled by DCUO. I'm not sure why given your enthousiasm and very interesting review Val...

Question regarding pvp: what are the engagement rules ? The way I understand the background of DCUO there are two main factions (good / villains roughly), can players from the same side engage each others or is it restricted faction vs faction in the WoW way ?

Edit: typos + comment.

[Vilidius]

Question regarding pvp: what are the engagement rules ? The way I understand the background of DCUO there are two main factions (good / villains roughly), can players from the same side engage each others or is it restricted faction vs faction in the WoW way ?

It's all versus the other faction.  So yes, heroes vs. villains.  On the actual PvP server ruleset (which I assume will be identical at launch, though this has not been absolutely confirmed) it's open world PvP all the time with no level restrictions.  This leads to some ganking but I haven't had any issues with it personally.  I find it very manageable.  On PvE you can flag yourself for open PvP (it's temporary with a cooldown) but very few people do.  PvP there revolves almost entirely around team arenas, legends "simulation" where you are playing as some other character, etc.  This is also a big thing on the PvP servers.

A LOT of the PvP you'll end up doing in sum total comes under controlled circumstances, though always (as noted) against the opposing team.  So far, anyway.  =)

[Janthos]

I actually just recently played the beta on PS3 , I am not sure I will try it for pc. If the pc version is anything at all like the PS3 version , it really seems like more of a console game to me. Admittedly I only got to level 9 as highest for the various characters I made , I just really wasn't that impressed. To be honest , if I were to get the itch to play a superhero MMO again , I would probably go back to CoH/CoV. If nothing else , they already have the bugs worked out ... that and I actually really enjoyed the game , just didn't know anyone.

I really hope the character creation on the pc version will be better , it was really limited on the PS3 version. Champions and CoH both easily had a better character creation system .... though being able to choose which gear will appear later on was kind of interesting. Seeing as I collected comics for years , I 'might" try it just for the novelty factor.

[Banc]

 Hailyas
I just bought the pre-order. 10 hours before launch. Narf!
Steam wouldn't let me in, so I went with Sony. Now I see there's no early download. Grr. Just "sometime" after 1200 am pst they will charge my card and send me an email. I hope they hurry, as 15 gigs will take me 8 or more hours.

So anyway, where do we meet? I'm ok with good or evil, and ok with pvp.
And I have to come up with a name.

          Snotbubble
   <League of Saga>

hmm <Starspun League>

hmm.

[Vilidius]

Hey Banc!

Thrilled you're jumping into this!  I think it'll be really interesting.

When it became clear that Saga wouldn't have a sufficient presence on its own, I went shopping for likeminded folks.  I've settled in with a guild called Excision and we'll be playing as Heroes (to start) on a PvP server - though preferably RP-PvP if available.  Unfortunately I can't tell you what the server is called because Sony, in a fit of utter lunacy, hasn't yet released the names!  God damn.  While I love the game itself, it just blows my mind that it's launching in seven hours and I don't know the server names!

Anyway, guild is located here, if you want to take a look:

http://exosyn.com/swtor/content.php

Aside from the fact that they are PvPers, I think they might suit Saga well.  The deal is that they used to be an "uber" guild, in that they approached their gaming professionally and almost as a second job, but then they grew up, got real jobs and families, and now are in their 30s etc.  They still love gaming, but insist it should be approached in a way that makes family life possible, with allowances for when stuff intrudes and so on.  So play the game to be good at the game, absolutely, but not to the detriment of other things.  And not with the kiddies. Also, the guild is mainly all waiting for SWTOR!  Sounds familiar eh, minus the PvP?  But in the meanwhile DCUO is the game of choice.

Excision is selective and careful in their recruitment, but going into a new game things are fluid.  Check it out if you are interested and I'll let you know what server I'm on and under what name(s).  I'll gladly recommend any old Sagaites to Excision if you'd care to join us, and from everything I've seen (from talking online with them, we use Teamspeak3) I've been impressed.  I hope you might be too.

Cheers,
Val

[Namae Nai]

There are two PvP servers on the PC side, "Death & Glory" and "Public Enemies." I'll create a character on each, until I know which one ya wanna stay on.

[Vilidius]

Ah jeez, sorry for not updating.

Excision is on Public Enemies.  My main there is Gremlin.  So far I'm quite pleased with my new guildies.  We've got about a dozen active with more incoming.  And considering the biggest "raid" is eight that's plenty to grow with.  Heroes are definitely outnumbered, but when we travel in group we are very hard to break.  The first full day was a zoo, however, as you'd expect.

Would be great if you could join us.  I can't suggest there's really any roleplaying going on, but it's a older group that has no trouble saying "have to feed the kid now" and that's something.

[Janthos]

I might take a look at the pc version , I would expect it to be a little better control wise than the PS3 version. Honestly though , CoH still has it for me for the super hero genre. I really enjoyed the game but only subscribed when I had other games going , so never really spent much time on there. So I will consider DCUO , especially if things work out today and we finish this job.

[Jezerai]

There was mention of starting a guild and using the name "Saga".  If you do use "Saga", please be on the good/neutral side. 

[Vilidius]

There was mention of starting a guild and using the name "Saga".  If you do use "Saga", please be on the good/neutral side.

Always.  Though I have no such plans, currently, because there just aren't enough "real" Sagaites in DCUO and I wouldn't recruit indiscriminately under that banner.  Also, Saga would seem out of place in PvP culture.

[Lilica]

Well, I try to be a real type.     That is, when my computer lets me.  Used a friend's computer to register into the game, so I've added DCUO to my Station Pass, and should have some progress made in having my system actually work when I turn the thing on.

Although no official RP servers exist, all the buzz seems to suggest that 'Virtue and Vice' server is the unofficial (PvE) server for such things, so that is likely where I will go (in addition to returning to Norrath, after the server mergers have stopped throwing the whole thing out of whack).  It is possible that another server would work, as long as we don't have another Echo Isles experience...not the fact that Saga doesn't play there, but the fact that it is not exactly a roleplaying-conducive environment without Saga guildmates there.

If Saga ends up on a PvP server, then I will confine myself to wishing you a heartfelt good luck, and follow your exploits there on the boards and, if people are so inclined, in Norrath.  While Battlegrounds and specific objectives are tolerable - sometimes even fun - open world PvP and I do not mix.  After trying it on EQ2, and briefly in WoW, I can conclude without doubt that I don't have the frame of mind for it.  But if others thrive in that environment and decide that is where it will be, then I'll read all about your exploits in the Gotham Gazette. 

[Jezerai]

Saga is still going strong in Norrath.  Although we are small, there is usually someone about.  I've been adventuring some in WoW and am enjoying it, though like you I am not excited about PvP.  I also have done some stuff in LoTRO, but I just can't get into it.

[Lilica]

I would of course expect Saga/Norrath to be steaming full speed ahead!  I just stopped for a bit because the server mergers were causing me all sorts of grief - all the more puzzling considering AB is one of maybe three servers NOT being merged - go figure.   

I started a Saga chapter in LotRO (Landroval server, the 'RP server by concensus') these many moons past, but I wasn't told anyone was at all interested, so I sort of assumed I was going to be it (I have a 'VIP' membership - yay).  As a result, I log into Middle-Earth infrequently, at best.

For WoW, I realize I am it...although there is a multi-tab guild bank for raws and such, if anyone is still on Echo Isles.

And finally, back to DCUO - I am cutting my teeth with a villain on 'Virtue and Vice' (finally got the computer to work properly) - this way, if Saga ends up on another server (PvE), I will not feel bad about having gone to the effort of leveling a toon up for nothing (unless you think 'Dark Saga' would be an acceptable alternate guild.    )

[Vilidius]

Just speaking personally, I think "Dark Saga" is a perfectly acceptable evil variant, which won't reflect on Saga's general identity.  But yeah, I feel really bad I might have left Sagaites behind in consequence, but I am really really absorbed in my "new" guild (Excision) in PvP on Public Enemies.  They're not against RP just not really for it either - the sort of players who play on a RP PvP server when they exist (apparently not a contradiction) just because the crowd is more mature.  I still think DCUO is so naturally PvP oriented anyway (a significant part of what's left to do at end game is PvP in arena play) that one might as well go whole hog, and I have a home warmed up for anyone so inclined.  Let me know if so.

At the same time, if Saga does in any numbers on a PvE server, I'll drop in and play there as well, at least part time.  That's a promise.

[Lilica]

Likewise - if Saga forms on a server other than Virtue and Vice, I'll save the one avatar for those times when no one else is to be found (or whatever), and simply make another on the new server.  It will take me a bit to get through the tutorial, though.  Not because of difficulty, but because I've discovered there are five or six badges you can earn in the tutorial alone.  More, potentially, but more than a full day in a twenty minute (tops) tutorial is excessive, and that's likely what it would take.  Still, I have heard of some OCD types who would do it.

As to Dark Saga...if there's some interest, it sounds logical.  But fundamentally, the archtypes are all the same between alignments, so that may convince most to just roll heroes, dub it 'Saga', and off we go.  If everyone playing the game weighs in, we might be able to get a feel for such things, but ultimately, as long as everyone is enjoying it, that's enough for me.   

[Scrib]

I'm still waiting for my copy to arrive. Expecting it tomorrow.

[Janthos]

Something I was meaning to look into and have not yet ... do the console players of DCUO play along with the PC players or are the servers/coding to different? I was just curious how that would work seeing as my cousin plays it by PS3 and I was considering it for PC

[Lilica]

I asked in-game, and the answer was unanimously 'separate servers' (about seven responses, so I'm willing to bet it's accurate).  So the 'Virtue and Vice' server I play on would not even show up on a PS3 player's system.