Denial of the Eagle Scout Award

[Antronna]

I usually don't do this but I really wanted to show everyone how much I care about people's rights. I looked at an interview on the Ellen show about how a boy could not get his eagle award for boy scouts just because he is gay. His mother posted a petition on change.org for him to get one. If anyone is interested in signing the petition, that would warm my heart.

http://www.change.org/petitions/boy-scouts-don-t-let-your-anti-gay-policy-deny-my-son-his-eagle-award

[Askari]

Been there, done that.

[Mixxi]

*signed*

*hugs Antronna*

[PinkRose]

Already signed. Thanks for bringing it to everyone's attention, Antronna.

[Zemnari]

/signed

[Talon]

Hopefully an Australian vote will count.

[Grimaldo]

Signed!

[Eliezer of Erudin]

I've been torn on the Boy Scouts of late.  I get their position, but to me it doesn't really seem to pass the basic test of does it do more good than harm.

OTOH I don't really have an issue with people wanting to pretend that children do not engage in sexual behaviors and think that children should respect the rights of us old fogeys to have that delusion :-p

[Askari]

/soapbox

BSA is a private organization with a lot of religious backing, so when the Supreme Court ruled in 2000 that the BSA had the right to exclude gays from membership...I guess that's something we have to live with (for at least another couple decades).

But that case was focused on gay Scout leaders. Adults.

The problem I have with this scenario is that a child is involved.

We're talking about a kid who has grown up Scouting. It was obviously a major part of his life, if he was going for Eagle Scout. It is possibly the defining thread of his childhood. From ages 6-17, he'd been a Scout more than half his life...considerably longer than he had self-identified as gay.

I get that the BSA is funded by a lot of religious organizations that condemn homosexuality. I don't like it, but I get it.

But it's one thing to tell an adult "we don't want your kind here" and quite another to kick a kid to the curb. I don't like the first, but the second is unconscionable to me. In any children's organization, the health and welfare of the child should come before the agenda of the organization.

I feel like the BSA's compassionate route in this case would be to at least award him his Eagle Scout before telling him he's not Godly enough to be a part of their fine organization. Because even though a private club supposedly has the right to discriminate, no human being should make a child feel useless, unworthy or evil for their sexual preference. It's attitudes like the BSA's that lead to so many gay teen suicides, and it makes me sick.

/soapbox off


EDIT: I apologize if this post offends any. I recognize that there are many who feel that actively condemning and dissuading homosexuality equates to protecting their children. I won't be so disingenuous as to say I "respect" those teachings, but I do tolerate them. However, it's much harder for me to tolerate teaching children that it is OK to ostracize and demonize those who you disagree with.

[Eliezer of Erudin]

I see your points and agree.

However, since we still live in a world where people are hung up on this (needlessly so IMO) over religious reasons, it will continue to be a problem.

While I 100% supported the removal of Don't Ask Don't Tell from the Military...  It may remain appropriate for Boy Scouts.  I dunno, maybe not.  I am not homosexual so I don't have the full picture from that side of things...

[Allen]

I never understood why anyone--straight, gay, or otherwise--would want to be in the boy scouts.

No offense intended to any former boy scouts here.

[Mixxi]

Well, I do know you've got a couple of former Boy Scout leaders here, and some former scouts, too. Maybe you just didn't have a good troop in your area. You can have some amazing adventures scouting.

Our troop discussed this several times, especially because we met at a church that was very active in supporting the LGBT community and rights. I think a lot of troops take national policy the way ours did--we ignored it (and this wasn't the only part of national policy we didn't pay attention to). For the situation discussed here to arise, some adult in the troop made it an issue. National policy has very little impact on individual troops unless the individual troops want it to. Besides, ANY scout who is into scouting enough to get an Eagle AND actually has a romantic life is pretty amazing.

More importantly:  ELIEZER sighting!!!   

[PinkRose]

I'm an Eagle Scout.
I love scouting, but I'm not in love with Scouting.
What we did locally was amazing and awesome and some of the best times of my young life.

[Allen]

Just to clarify, I wasn't criticizing scouting...I literally don't understand the interest in being part of the organized structure of the scouts.   Thinking more about it since Mixxi and pink commented, perhaps it is because I grew up in a very rural area on a farm with nothing to do but be outdoors.  Also, my grandfather and uncles used to bore me to tears with forced hunting trips on which they tried to teach me about the native flora and fauna.  Lastly, my incomprehension probably stems from a lifelong misperception of what the scouts actually do. 

[Eliezer of Erudin]

The more I think about the more I agree it shouldn't matter at all.

I enjoyed Scouts a lot, but I came from an urban background - Brooklyn, NY.

I can certainly imagine how living in a more rural setting would lessen the appeal considerably.  Plus aren't those the areas with the other big competition for Scouts?  Groups like 4H and such?

Heya Mixxi!   

[PinkRose]

That makes sense, Allen.
For me, we went camping, canoeing, we learned to tie knots, build fires, slept in an igloo, climbed a mountain, learned to swim, and cook, astronomy, use an Acetylene torch and make a grill, and preform really, really, really horrible campfire sketches and songs.
It also gave me a chance to hang out with my friends 1 night a week and 1 weekend a month.
I did many other things as a kid/teen but Boy Scouts was the most active.

And HI Eliezer! What you playing at now? Come join us in GW2.

[Mixxi]

One thing I really liked as a parent was that my early-teenage sons got to hang out with some really great older teenagers. And I can guarantee you that they would never have slept on board ships, gone cavern spelunking, snow camping, whitewater rafting, or tested themselves alone out in the forest overnight with nothing but the clothes on their back if it weren't for scouting. See, if I made them do that last thing outside of scouting, I would probably receive a visit from Child Protective Services.

I suspect many of the things that made scouting nice for them had to do with being a scout in Northern California, which is just an amazing region for the outdoors.

By the way, I was a 4-H'er, truly the superior youth group, since it's co-ed, including summer camp. At Boy Scout summer camp, they had very organized flag ceremonies. At 4-H summer camp, the boys ran the girls' bras up the flagpole. 

[Talon]

At 4-H summer camp, the boys ran the girls' bras up the flagpole. 

An important life skill if ever I heard one.

Our outdoors groups involve snake, spider, and drop-bear wound treatment (we have loads of venemous creatures), horse and kangaroo riding and herding, and a Hangi (pronounced Hahng-ee) which is a Maori method of cooking food by burying it.

(Please note I never belonged to an outdoors group but did camp a lot with my family, also the above is purely fabrication as far as I know).

[PinkRose]

I was so excited until you ruined it, Talon.

[Cyrian]

I'll try to be gentle on this topic, it's difficult for me as your typical bleeding heart liberal, but here we go.  The base lessons taught by the Boy Scouts are fantastic. Statement of fact, done.  The lessons taught politically and socially by The Boy Scouts of America are ultra conservative brainwashing and homophobic at best.  They do great things for some, and others they scar for life.  I love the message, I despise the posturing.

I hope some day we'll have a clean balance for all things, especially where our youth is involved.